Brexit - It's Being Killed Off

Discussion in 'Brexit & Politics' started by Ashtree, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. rob1

    rob1 Member

    Location:
    wiltshire
    I didnt say renaults figures were wrong I said you claimed they made 1,700 odd Billion profit they say they made 1.7 billion which is just a tad different :rolleyes: and its operating profit which isnt the same as total net profit as it doesnt include finance or one off costs, its a way of showing the underlying margin, but for example a business could be making a profit on its trading but be so far in debt that it cant service that debt( I'm not saying that is the case at all but trading profit is only part of the story) and liable to go bust
     
  2. wanton dwarf

    wanton dwarf Member


    I think you have way too much faith.

    We've seen all kinds of UK industry destroyed .. classic example is the UK car industry. Obvious now that UK workers can build anything from low to high qualify as fast and as cheap as the next factory.

    It's UK management that cant shoot a fish in a barrel, and I don't think you can say it's a problem that can be fixed by education or anything else .. the section of society where most of these people come from are only too happy to asset strup and run the business into the ground.

    Carillion, BHS, Co-Op Bank, RBS, Rover .. lots of examples all through the past few decades.

    Other than the foriegn owned businesses which look to be well financed and well run .. our esteemed leadership in London are only too happy to import as much as they can, in London first that well known traffic efficient hotspot and THEN having created even more of a logistics nightmare than you thought possible along came HS1, HS2, HS3, HS4 ..

    Nah, this was and is all about money.

    It is common place in the IT industry to tie people in with software licenses so you HAVE to buy their product, keep regular payments to keep using their product and as you know dealerships will tie you in with maintenance.

    Saw a video recently of USA farmers lobbying for release of the IT machinery needed to keep their combines well maintained in todays business climate .. otherwise they'd have to spend $1000s on shiping machinery off just to get them serviced & maintained.

    I don't think automation will be the heaven some people think .. those that can use a computer enough to code & understand machinery are as rare as rocking horse sh@t and farming isn't gonna be able to compete with multitudes of other industries which are far more profitable. But then again perhaps we are going to breed a god like race of super humans from all this immigration ..
     
  3. bobk

    bobk Member

    Location:
    stafford
    The problem isn't the monkeys , it's the organ grinders .
     
  4. Ashtree

    Ashtree Member

    The headlong jump out of the plane after such luminaries as Boris and Mogger, is sure to bring the average working person to a much better future.
     
  5. wanton dwarf

    wanton dwarf Member


    Just my experience of living in the UK the past few decades.

    Plenty of talk about "reasons" but on the ground the facts are somewhat different, money >> London by hook or by crook.
     
  6. Muck Spreader

    Muck Spreader Member

    Location:
    Limousin
    I have no idea what you are tying to say. The article Howard posted stated that of the 1.36 billion net income that Renault made 1.12 billion came from Nissan. The figures for 2016 are 3.543 billion with Nissan contributing 1,741 of that. If you go back 5 or 6 years Nissan where in fact producing all of Renault's profit, so maybe it's an old article.
     
  7. Two Tone

    Two Tone Member

    I went to an interesting meeting last week held by United Oilseeds. Despite @Ashtree trying to make us think that Brexit is being killed off, everybody at the meeting firmly believed that this view is complete rubbish.

    We started looking at what will happen to the Ag commodities markets post 31st March 2019, assuming that there will be no Customs Unions or Free trade agreements in place. Obviously this will determine for most of us how we will want to change our rotations to take maximum advantage, starting with the planting of crops from this Autumn. These are what we should take into consideration:

    Oilseed Rape (un-crushed) seed is tariff free, but the extracted oil isn't. Therefore Rapeseed for Bio-diesel will continue to make its way from the UK to Germany for this.

    Tariffs on wheat will encourage more home grown Milling wheat production and the price of it will rise.
    Barley acreage on the other hand, heavily relies on exports. Therefore will suffer a price reduction.
     
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  8. Ashtree

    Ashtree Member

    And not one single person had an alternative view. At what point did you nod off?
    Not even one ..................... and the nice man from the seed company was delighted of course as seed sale prospects
    held up well in the one sided debate.
     
  9. rob1

    rob1 Member

    Location:
    wiltshire
    you said that nissan made one thousand seven hundred and forty one billion you are mixing decimal points and commas, the point I was making is that operating profit isnt NET profit, I'm not saying that renault/nissan arent doing well but operating profit is often used to show that a company is making money day to day but maybe it has huge debts and interest payments which arent included and which "could" drag a company down, or maybe they have had to pay put huge sums to shut factories down as a one of cost etc
     
  10. Muck Spreader

    Muck Spreader Member

    Location:
    Limousin
    I have never commented on the operating profit, it's not particularly relevant in this situation. However, I take you point on the point, fat finger syndrome. It would only make Renault four times more profitable than Apple:ROFLMAO:
     
    alex04w and rob1 like this.

  11. Was my old friend Johnathan there?
     
  12. Two Tone

    Two Tone Member

    There were plenty there that voted remain. But no one that I came across that didn't accept the result and all are keen to get on with it. Slightly surprising to me was that nobody seemed to care a jot if we get a trade deal or not. Certainly seemed to me that nobody is expecting us to get one, with the probability that we won't.

    Edit re your seed comment. If anything, we could see the demise of expensive Hybrid Barley seed. As you can't use Home grown Hybrid varieties, Mr Seed merchant will not be pleased that we will all be using much more of our own home grown Conventional seed and not buying much from him any more.

    Can absolutely assure you that nobody was nodding off!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  13. Two Tone

    Two Tone Member

    Not sure which Jonathon you mean. Can't think of anyone called Jonathon off the top of my head. Does he work for UOS?
    PM me if you don't want to use his surname on here.

    Have to say it was a brilliant conference. Lots of useful technical stuff and potential trials information. Dow-Dupont have a very useful new herbicide containing Arelex that we should be able to use next Autumn, which when mixed with Kerb, will turn it into a super Astrokerb that will have very useful Cranesbill control as well as Hedge Mustard (Runch) control. If this is the case, I could potentially be using non-Clearfield varieties again.

    But most interesting of all was looking at what Brexit will mean as to which crops we will want to grow. It all sounded like good news to me.
     
    wanton dwarf likes this.
  14. Two Tone

    Two Tone Member

    Just been to another meeting (Frontier 3D this time) and after prompting via a question from me, got the same answers as the UOS conference stated (without anybody needing to ask them!).

    I'd say at this meeting, there were far more Leavers than Remainers. Nonetheless all want to get on with it and recognise that it is unlikely that any free trade agreement with the EU will come to fruition.

    Clearly, we need to ask ourselves what crops we should be planting for marketing post 31st March 2019 and which ones we should avoid.

    We don't actually grow enough Rape in the UK to create an Export market. Which is a shame because under WTO rules we could export un-crushed Rapeseed without a tariff, whereas the oil itself does attract a tariff.
    So there is very good scope for us growing far more of this crop in the future.

    The story with Wheat is a mixed one. We import a lot of milling wheat, which could be replaced by growing more of it ourselves. Spring Wheat might become more popular and would help in a rotation, where Blackgrass is an issue.

    The story isn't looking rosy for Barley, because we export so much of it, especially to the EU and tariffs will create a drop in sale prices.

    Nice to see companies like Frontier doing so much trial work on all 3 crops. However, they do need to wake up a bit and concentrate more on the crops we will be growing and less so on those that perhaps we shouldn't.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    Henarar likes this.
  15. wanton dwarf

    wanton dwarf Member


    A lot of the "Problems" would disappear with acceptance the UK agricultural market needs to target imports.

    For example UK livestock farming targetting imports would lead to greater demand from UK cereal growers - specifically allowing Soya GM crops. Diversification into Veg to compete with imports - farmers with existing Combined Heat & Power schemes should be able to get heated greenhouses up and running.

    Conservatives need to grow Cahoonas and stop continuing the Labour agenda of decimating UK markets which damage Conservative voters bottom line.

    The UK has plenty of ground to make up in self sufficiency.
     
    Two Tone likes this.
  16. Ashtree

    Ashtree Member

    I read recently that for the UK to become self sufficient in meat, dairy and cereals, the population would have to adjust their dietary habits to eating meat once a week:scratchhead:
    Grist to the mill of the libtard vegan lefties:whistle:
    There would need to be a massive increase in fruit and veg consumption and production. Very labour intensive and requiring lots and lots of able and willing hands ....... they’ve become scarce already according to producers currently in the business:scratchhead:
     
  17. Two Tone

    Two Tone Member

    I think there is plenty of scope for British farmers to expand beef production if they were encouraged to do so. There are lots of young guys willing to get started. Lamb producers are worried about the loss of their EU market. But surely this also means that Lamb might become a more popular meat for us to eat.
    I was brought up in the Cambridgeshire Fens in the 60's. We used to grow a hell of a lot of Veg and Fruit there. When we joined the EEC, Cereal farming became easier so seemed to take over. But I see no reason why, if given the right encouragement, veg production couldn't expand again.

    IMO, there is no doubt that the UK could become very much more self sufficient in all its food production. Ironically, like it used to be before we joined the EEC. We might actually have to be so again. Bring it on!
     
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  18. Ashtree

    Ashtree Member

    Ah, the rose tinted spectacles. The slip of paper in the voting booth was very definitely seen through many a pair of such rose tinted glasses. Wishing for a bygone age when cabbage and turnips were derigeur, and the sun never set on the Empire.
     
  19. Two Tone

    Two Tone Member

    Utter Rubbish!
    Fed up with being screwed (especially within farming) by the EU and wanting to take back control, more likely.
    We need a better system and remaining within the EU will never provide us with it.
    What is wrong with us wanting to feed our own Nation?

    Obviously we realise that our leaving is not what you in ROI would like and must also admit to feeling sorry for you.
    But as far as most of us farmers in the UK are concerned, bring it on!

    No amount of ridicule by those of you still within it will make us change our minds. It is going to happen and anybody with any sense will see the opportunities and grab them.
     
    alex04w and turbo like this.

  20. Have you the budget then for how these young forward thinking UK lads buy UK dirt at £23,000/ha growing osr and milling wheat?
    It sounds like you have found the goose that lays the golden eggs (or should that now be bitcoins?)

    Or, as I suspect, these opportunities only exist for the already "haves". No change then really :banghead:
     

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